Catfighter and owner of www.tanyakicks.com
In high school, you took part in competitive swimming with some
considerable degree of success. While swimming is an excellent sport for
staying healthy, did it really satisfy your competitive nature at the time?
I did very well with
swimming but it really did not satisfy my hunger for real competition. In
many ways you are alone when swimming, you don't have that chance to get
competitive in a physical way one on one. Sure I could get bitchy with
the other swimmers, but there was no way they were going to get into a body to
body confrontation. I much prefer the intensity of facing off with
another woman, each of us wanting to kick the others ass. I really get
into the intense woman against woman sweaty physical struggle thing.
Do you currently do swimming for fitness? What other activities do you do for exercise?
I don't swim anymore. Competitive swimming cured me of that.
Now, other than fighting, my fitness regime is centred around weight
training and intensive cardio. Call it muscular strength and endurance
training.
Intensive cardio - that sounds like more than just regular sessions on
the treadmill and exercise bike... are you going for speed or distance? That is (in track and field terms, for
example) are you more interested in the 100 meters or the 10,000 meters?
It is more. However,
I'm not going for speed or distance. The goal is to outlast the other
women. If the fight becomes a battle of endurance, I want to come out on
top. Besides, it's hard to fight smart if all you can think about is
trying to get enough air! Also relates to muscular endurance. No
good if you've got a good hold, but your muscles give out before she does.
Do such things as mixed wrestling clubs really exist?
Yes, but they are very rare.
There used to be one here in Ottawa quite a few years ago. The
problem generally is you get lots of guys and few gals. We kept it a
couples thing so it worked well for about two years.
That sounds interesting... did the women keep to themselves, or did
they take on other men - other than their husbands?
Oh no, everyone wrestled
everyone else. Men vs. men, women vs. women, mixed, tag, couple vs.
couple. You toned down for the weaker or less capable, and fought harder
those who matched you. It was a playful
fun environment rather than a competitive one. Mind you, you could always
set up a more intense match with "that bitchy blond" for later in
private.
And I imagine that it had the advantage of putting you in contact with
a number of women who liked wrestling - was it initially a surprise that other
women enjoyed combat sports?
Yes, I suppose it was.
Now it would not surprise me, but then I had little exposure to women like
myself. Actually I'm quite surprised at the number of women fighters
here. I would suggest there are more serious catfighters here per capita
than anywhere. Ottawa is not a big city but there are five of us here
doing serious real catfighting.
After your first competitive wrestling match against another woman, you
had feelings along the lines that wrestling was not a suitable activity for
women. Certainly a significant number of people would agree with those
feelings, even today. However, do you think you would have been having the same
thoughts if your match had been a martial arts match - for example, Judo? If
not, why?
No I don't. I had done
martial arts prior to that fight. The thing with martial arts is that
they generally are very structured and have their own rules. You can't
actually let loose. It's not like a catfight where each of us is free to
pretty much do your worst. Catfighting is a fight style and a legitimate
one. Even the nastiest of them have their rules that you and your
opponent agree to in advance, but you have a lot more freedom to take the
action you want, you don't have to hold back as much.
My problem after that first
arranged fight was that I felt bad about having hurt her. I felt bad that
she had now given up the sport. But mostly I felt bad that I had enjoyed
beating her so much!! Happily I don't have those feeling anymore. I
accept that I like to fight, I accept that I like to win, and I accept that
anyone who gets into an arranged catfight is agreeing to the risk.
You make two important points there. We'll deal with the one about
catfighting later.. do you find that the highs of winning more than compensate
for the lows of losing? I would imagine
that losing a catfight is no joke...
You are certainly right.
Losing a catfight is no joke. At the same time even if you win you
can count of being banged up pretty good! You have to view every match as
a serious event. That's because anyone can have an off day, or someone
can just be lucky. Even the best fighters lose on occasion. I view
a loss with this philosophy; if I lose I've learned something from them and
gained experience ... And that's a good reason for a rematch. Many men
imagine that there is some sort of sexual kick to winning. Not for me
though. Make no mistake, it is a kick to win a tough fight against
another woman but it is not a sexual one. I guess it does compensate for
the losses.
Is the attraction of competitive matches against other women as strong
for you today as it was for your first match?
For sure!! What can I
say I love to fight.
Yet you've recently stopped doing matches against men... does that mean
that you don't enjoy matches against men as much as matches against women?
After all, men can be competitive too...
True. And while men
can be competitive, no man is as competitive as another woman. It's a
whole different mindset. When men fight, they generally hold back
something, they follow some sort of code or rules. With women it is
different. It does not matter who she is or how well you know or like
her, with a competitive woman you know she is going to try to beat you any way
she can. It is just raw, emotional, and totally intensive with women.
That's why I like fighting them.
Are you saying that there's a different psychology between men and
women when it comes to fighting? That is, that even when men fight other men
they still follow the rules - and women don't? Or perhaps men hold back when
fighting women because social conditioning insists that it's wrong for a man to
physically hurt a woman, whereas a woman will always view another woman as an
equal - both cases being irrespective of size and weight?
Yes that what I'm
saying. It's a generalisation of course, but in the main men and women
fight differently. This is not based solely on my perspective as a woman
who has fought both sexes. My hubby fights too, and he says that
generally men have limits, rules, code of conduct which even when unspoken is
followed.
That simply is not the case
in a serious woman vs. woman fight. If is not some 'slap and giggle' video then
it will be ugly. Every woman my girls or I have fought, and that includes
fighting each other, is out to win. And they really don't care how once
they get started. I really have to emphasise any rules that are going to
apply to keep things in line.
Many people would be apprehensive about taking a pastime and turning it
into a career. Was it an easy decision to make?
Well I had circumstances in
my life that allowed me to take the risk. Besides, I had seen what other
companies were making. When I watch women fight, I enjoy watching them
fight for real. Sadly that was nearly impossible to find. I just thought
I could fill that hole in the market. It's not been easy though, because
in order to make real fight tapes you need real fighters. In spite of
what they sell themselves as, very few of the "fighters" out there
are. So I end up with a dozen or so tapes, made when I dig a fighter out.
How do you 'dig a fighter out'? Is it possible to look at a woman on
the street and know that she could, or would, be a fighter? What makes a good
fighter? A love of fighting would seem fairly obvious, and strength and
determination would be advantageous... is there anything else that you would
look for?
When it's not a chance encounter thing and I'm actually looking (as I
do almost as a matter of course) what I look for is attitude. It's hard
to explain, but the way a woman carries herself, her level of confidence, her
mannerisms tell me she is one of us. Then, believe it or not, I'll just find
an opportunity to be alone with her at some point and ask her if she's ever
considered fighting other women. You'd be surprised to know that my read
is virtually never wrong.
Of the women that you identify as being willing to fight, is it a
relatively small percentage that would also be willing to fight on camera? It
would seem to me that there's a significant difference there... also, when you
come across a fighter who doesn't want to be filmed, do you fight her anyway
for the sake of the challenge (and staying in practise)?
Actually, almost everyone who is willing to fight is also willing to do
so on video. Very few exceptions for some reason. I do fight just for
practice, but normally that's among us girls here in Team Tanya.
Your website (http://www.tanyakicks.com) seems mainly concerned with
catfighting. Is this an indication of your own personal preference, or the
preferences of your fans?
Yes it is, but also my
clients preference. While wrestling is a part of catfighting, by itself,
I find it boring. Too slow, too many rules, too limiting. My
clients like a good dirty catfight too though. If they want to see
wrestling, they can watch it on TV or go to the local college or high school.
If they want to see women fight, they come to me.
Do you produce custom tapes - where a client wants to see some
specific?
No I don't make custom
tapes. There are two reasons. The first is that by the time a
client has a script or idea developed to the point they approach me, you simply
can't meet the expectation. No matter what, it will not be exactly what
was in their mind. Secondly, and most important, is that as a maker of
real fights, I simply can't arrange the match to provide the holds, tactics, or
sequencing desired. When I, or the girls who work with me fight, we
fight. We quite honestly have not idea what will happen or how long it
will go. That said, I do try to meet
the desire of clients so far as dress, and scenario goes. We like to
fight in a wide variety of venues, even if they are risky.
There are those paint fight photos on your website - I guess they were
something completely different from what you normally do? Were they a request,
or something that just happened?
The fights were great, and
the photographer is a wonderful woman who is very talented. We did the
shoot and fighting for "fighting females" magazine in the
states. They however, were not what they were looking for. Too
rough, too edgy, and I don't think they liked the B&W approach either.
It would seem that most naturally-occurring catfights are not
premeditated, and often brought about by strong feeling of anger or even hate,
whereupon a woman 'sees red' and is often involved in a fight before she even
realises what she is doing. This seems to be completely different from what you
do - yet both can be called catfights. Do you try to generate feeling of anger
- or at least annoyance - before a fight?
Some women I fight I don't
have to generate a thing. I just don't like her. That said, I don't
generate anything for other women whom I love. The fact is I'm a
sweetheart off the mat, but once on it, girl we are going to fight!
That's what it's about, it's what we do and I do it to win. The camera
rolling is just incidental to me and to most women who fight with me or for Team
Tanya.
Assuming you are facing an opponent who has comparable strength and
determination to your own, how long would you expect such a fight to last? Is
there such a thing as an average length to a fight?
I would not say there is any
hard and fast rule. I've had fights go 5 submissions in 15 minutes, and
I've had one submission fights that have gone 50 minutes, and damn did that
hurt!! I always hope for at least 30 minutes of actual fighting for a video,
but if it is shorter, well so be it. I'll just combine it with another
short fight.
Considering the action is unplanned, that would suggest that a fixed
camera position is unsuitable for filming... so you need a good cameraman who
can follow the action. Are good cameramen (or camerawomen) hard to find?
Yes they are hard to
find. My husband now does it as he has developed quite a knack for
it. We have a unique shooting style. We use one camera, either a
digital or TV broadcast SVHS depending on conditions. We shoot single
camera and the camera follows the action. It give the clients the
impression they are right there, on top of the fight, they see all the action
and the intensity. We have many requests to film fights for other
companies based on our style of shooting. The key I think is not just the
style but also knowing how women fight, what they might do next, anticipating
that and being in the position to get the shot, and capture the emotion of a
real fight.
Would you take up a martial art - if you were so inclined, and/or if
your fans reported an interest in you doing so?
Nope. Catfighting is a
martial art unto itself.
Can we examine that? Most martial arts have some identifiable
component; boxing has punches, karate has kicks, judo has throws, wrestling has
submission holds... would it be fair comment to say that catfighting has
hairpulling and breast attacks as its most recognisable features?
Interesting. I would
say there are a number of distinguishing features of catfighting. One is
that catfighting can combine all the components from the combat sports you
mentioned. Throws, kicks, punches, submission holds. That is part
of what makes it dynamic and exciting. The second feature of catfighting
is the virtual absence of any referee. Unlike other combat sports where
there is a third party, in catfighting it is usually just you and your opponent
until it's over one way or the other. The final distinguishing feature is
the aspect that allows opponents to break the traditional taboos of other
combat sports. That is you can breach the limitations on what can be
attacked in a fight. You can, as you point out, make use of her hair and
breasts. Additionally though it can also include things like using nails,
teeth, crotch attacks, slapping, perhaps suffocation and humiliation, though
not sexual humiliation, which is generally reserved for faked catfights.
That's certainly a convincing argument for catfighting being accepted
as an Olympic sport... still, you mentioned earlier that it's usually agreed
before a catfight that certain things won't be done - maybe eye-gouging and
twisting of fingers, for example - but if another woman was to ask you to not
attack hair or breasts and not to scratch or bite, does it then cease to be a
catfight? I'm just thinking that judo without the throws is just grappling, wrestling
without submission holds is pin wrestling only, karate without kicks is more or
less boxing, and boxing without punches is nothing at all...
You are right, while not
well defined, after you get to a certain number of limitations, it is not a
catfight. Maybe you could limit one or maybe two of the things you suggest, but
after that it's just rough wrestling. No fun in that!!
Some people see their websites as an integral part of their business,
while others view them as non- essential, or even a liability if left without
updates for any length of time. Which view do you take, and how much are you
actively involved?
My business is basically an Internet based one. I sell quite
literally all over the world. It is the best way for me to reach my
markets and since I provide my product in any VHS video format known to man to
meet that international market it is crucial.
Your website doesn't have a member's section... is that something you
would be interested in doing some time in the future?
I feel honoured that people
want to visit my site. So why would I charge them? I understand
that some folks have to generate income to keep their sites up, but for many
folks it's just greed. I often wonder
if people who charge are not losing in the long run. I mean I've gone to
sites, but never actually gone beyond the front page of any that charged me.
Bet a lot of folks are like me. I
do have a section of my site for people to see original clips of me and the
girls fighting in situations that don't appear anywhere else or on video.
They pay $10 a month to see at least 10 clips of real fights with the
clips running at least a minute. They change monthly and it does cost me
to make them so that's how I recover my expenses there. In addition every
3 months I release a batch of those on CD for people for $30.
Although producing 10 minutes plus of original clips every month
doesn't sound like much, I'm sure that a lot of work goes into that... and it
introduces a deadline that you have to meet. Has that ever caused you problems?
It is a major difficulty to produce original fights each month.
And you do more than 10 as some simply don't work. We always do new
fights, we don't just recycle clips from previous videos.
What sort of music do you listen to when you relax or are on the net?
Dixie Chicks! Do you
know they fight?
They do? I hope they put their instruments down first (especially the
cactus double bass)... do you prefer the current line-up to the original?
Maybe we're not talking about the same band? They have always
been the three girls I know about.
Well, the current line-up is Natalie Maines, Emily Erwin, and Martie
Seidel... but the original line-up, back in 1989, was Laura Lynch, Robin Macy,
Emily Erwin and Martie Erwin - and there are three Dixie Chicks albums before
'Wide Open Spaces'... but what's this about them fighting?
Your knowledge exceeds
mine! Couple of interviews though they have spoken about their love of
wrestling each other when on the road. Stress relief I guess. Hey
how about three Team Tanya girls vs. the Dixie Chicks!?!
Sounds good to me… are there musical styles, other that C&W, which
you like to listen to?
Pretty much anything but
Oprah!!
But I thought she had a pretty decent show... oh, you mean Opera?
Sorry, spelling error, not
that I'm a big Oprah fan either!
Why doesn't anyone like opera? All right, some of it can be a bit
boring, but Puccini, for example? Bizet? These are class acts! Sigh.... one
more question before we finish... what's your favourite drink?
Caffeine Free Diet
Pepsi. Really.
Luckily Seaking's well-stocked bar has that very thing… and I think
I'll have one too. Thank you very much
for a fascinating interview!